>> hello and welcome to "france 24." coming up in our debate on syria . u.n. theory and -- chemical inspectors come under fire in damascus. whether their mission is too little too late as the final countdown already begun. there is talk of red lines. what about russia and iran? you can tweet us.

we are going to resume this our act in the news room. you have the update on most of the stories making news. >> chemical weapons inspectors are in the damascus suburbs. western powers say their trip may be too little too late. peace talks canceled as three people are killed during west bank clashes. the state department and the usa the talks will continue. in china, the trial of bo wraps up. we start with the un's secretary-general, confident and local experts can get the evidence on the alleged despite

the time. they have reportedly met wounded people. their convoy was forced to turn back at the point of sniper fire. western powers saint damascus's decision to allow the team access may be too little too late. the military response is one of the options in discussion. an attack last week killed hundreds. damascus has dismissed the accusation with russia warning the west against intervention. >> u.n. inspectors at a field hospital in the suburbs of damascus. this amateur video was posted online highest. activist activist. it seems to joe -- by a syria

n activist.

during the trial he said it was a shame of having made mistakes in the investigation admitted to

some responsibility for embezzlement to state funds. the prosecution is demanding severe punishment, saying he has shown no remorse. state media praised the trial as the sign of the communist parties crackdown on corruption. the case is a political show trial. emergency crews in the u.s. state of california are struggling to contain the wildfires. the flames are threatening the electricity supplies. >> we got our kids, our animals, and pictures.

the paperwork that we really needed. >> california has declared a state of emergency for san francisco. the fire is moving towards a source of 85% of the city's water. it is also supplies power to the international airport and san francisco general hospital. extreme conditions and inaccessible areas have made it harder to tackle the blaze. >> the wins are increasing. -- winds are increasing. >> it is one of the most critical. it has grown so large that it is difficult for firefighters to predict. strong winds have made it a rough year for an area already prone to fires. >> 30 meter flames have been tearing over homes in some areas. the spanish lanes have been

dropping water on the affected regions. -- planes have been dropping water on the affected regions. a rare appearance from giuliana sasha. josh julianne assange. >> he is used to making a splash online. the internet has been introduced to a more musical side. they are seeking to raise support ahead of australians election. he gets a makeover inside london's ecuadorian embassy. he has been living there over a year. it culminates with a mind cover of "the voice."

♪ his political rivals are mocked by the shows presenters. responding to complaints the video was offensive, the spokesperson said it was "fun." either way, the clip is likely to change the persona. that may not be enough to get his party over the line. ♪ >> that is it from the newsroom. >> tonight, it began 29 months

ago as a local uprising against the long serving ruler. it soon morphed into a civil war that has claimed over 100,000 lives and sparked a refugee crisis. with divisions among outside powers growing by the hour, syria tinderbox is as volatile as ever. claims and counterclaims about what exactly happened in a poison gas attack last wednesday. after five days of cooling their heels at a damascus hotel, united nations inspectors got a green light from the government to head to the site of that attack. but no sooner did they arrive than they were portably came under fire -- reportedly came under fire. syrian state television claimed terrorist.

the incident will not keep the united nations from proceeding. one year after barack obama warned chemical weapons were a red line that could trigger u.s. military action. they are hinting they could act without formal united nations backing with options ranging from stepping up military aid to the rebels to no-fly zones or tactical airstrikes on government targets. assad has some pretty strong allies. russia and iran. they warned this week and that it be a grave error. assad gave an interview to a russian newspaper. the u.s. can expect to fail. america has taken part in numerous wars, but has never been able to achieve the political objectives.

i will begin on my right. we have jordan. welcome to the show. former u.s. state department official, you were based and damascus in the early 1990s. well acquainted with the middle eastern region. right next to you on your right, thank you for being here. assistant professor and a specialist at the american university here in paris. you are a researcher with france foundation for strategic research. last, but not least, joining me by celebrate -- satellite

from tel aviv. i am glad you are there to give us your view. i want to cut to the chase. inspectors finally got out to the field today. hanging around in the hotel for five days. they got back and collected some material. under these circumstances, can they do their job? what i think they can do part of their job. the first step of their mission is to identify the presence of a chemical agent. this is the most easiest part to achieve. they came back tonight to the hotel. they will prove that the neurotoxins were used. the second step is much more

difficult. between the attack and the authorization on the ground, you could endanger the second part of the region. it is not clear if they have the mandates to try to investigate to know who launched the attack. the second part will be more difficult because the inspector will have to go underground and find pieces that were used by the forces. you can imagine that during these five days, the regime had all the time to do what they need to do to give away the proof. >> this was a concern expressed by the british minister himself. he suggested there is a lot of time to compromise the material and make it worthless.

>> if the regime -- they would have given access to the u.n. inspectors several days ago. we called for the security council. they received -- they refused that until now. they have continued to bombard east of damascus. we have to be realistic about what the u.n. team can achieve. the evidence has degraded over the last few days. other evidence could have been tampered with. >> let's assume that the evidence was not tampered with. this issue of being degraded, just lying there, you can still use the blood evidence, is that correct? >> that would only prove the neurotoxins were used.

if you are able to find parts of any weapons used during this attack, you could have a clear view on who is responsible. >> we have little doubt about who initiated the attack. it is clearly the regime. only the regime could have such access to the amount. it would be hundreds of leaders. -- liters. i do not think the rebels could put their hands on such -- >> that is what the western powers are sagging. we will get to that -- what the western powers are sagging.

william jordan, i want to bring you in here. the western powers and london and paris and in washington, the leaders have been mulling over a military option. we have spoke time and again -- >> the situation with this chemical weapons attack has forced the obama administration to acknowledge, but only the severity of the situation, what also it can only sort of be evasive about what has been meant by crossing this red line.

i think that as london and paris publicly ratcheted up the rhetoric about what needs to be done in response, president obama -- there has been a lot of pressure for a variety of reasons for making good on the chemical weapons convention and making clear this kind of attack is inconceivable and unacceptable to the international community. the president understands that his credibility on this issue is at stake and in ways that he really has to balance this against the strong public opinion against any significant intervention. >> descents within the u.s. -- do you sense within the u.s. there is a lot of mounting pressure to take a tough line? >> john mccain is one of the

most adamant and eloquent partisans of that point of view, but there are other people on capitol hill who are echoing the reservations of their constituents. we really need to be very careful. what the administration is trying to do for the time being, while the report is being put together, and while there are discussions going on about next steps, there is a show of force going on in the eastern mediterranean, u.s. warships are moving into the area, and i think what the -- what the administration wants is a clear move towards action. doing all of the things that need to be done responsibly. >> russia has blocked three

efforts. what is russia thinking about this talk in washington? >> they are not behind the scenes looking for a way to back down. >> "france 24" have shown in the core doors, very secretly, russia has been trying to find a solution. there have been discussions between the kremlin and the opposition. in a very recent release, the ministry of foreign affairs has deplored the moderates among the rebels that have been eliminated from negotiations. they are not fanatical. they are also extremely embarrassed by this whole affair because this has completely

destroyed what has been building between russia and turkey in terms of reconciliation after centuries of hostility, economic cooperation. there is one dr. in -- dr docterine --my ally, right or wrong. a have a military base at stake. >> we have talked a lot about the strategic influence of that. the russian foreign minister gave a press conference today. just directly this issue of if there was a western intervention. take a listen to what he had to say. >> using force without the green

light of the security council would be a severe violation of international law. russia has no plans to go along with anyone. this is not an illusion, this would be a huge mistake. this will only lead to further bloodshed. >> help me sort through that quest -- that statement. a military intervention would be a violation. it seems like it is suggesting if it happens, it will not do anything. >> i would not assume that russia would stand aside. click the is a big difference

between -- >> there is a big difference between assad and hussein. he decided to dump the americans as well. that was a punishment against hussein to stand aside. let's not assume that this will happen this time. assad has been a loyal ally to russia. the difference between iraq, russia has its last military base in the mediterranean. >> i will come back to you in a second. iran, not just russia, has been very much a staunch ally of syria.

it does not seem like it is going to drop assad anytime soon. >> iran is not invested -- having an ally in the mediterranean and on the border with israel and lebanon who can't use to supply weapons to has below -- can used to supply weapons to hezbollah. syria was one of the very few countries in the middle east to supported iran. there is a long-standing history of cooperation between the two governments. it is very important to hold onto serious -- syria. it serves strategic interest. having influence in syria gives

iran more leverage. iran can use the syrian as a bargaining chip in any negotiations. if the iranian people see that syrian rose up, one day, if the people of iran want to do the same, maybe we can, too. it is important for the iranian government that assad stays in power. >> the u.s. defense secretary basically said that he wants to work in concert with the international community before any military intervention. a not too not just charging in the roughshod. the u.s. would be ready to act without backing. russia, china. >> i think that is correct.

we have seen it before. the u.s. has a lot of other partners. i am not sure if the u.s. would want to go through nato or the arab league, but the u.n. charter allows for organizations to step in to try to take care of certain conflicts. does not have to go through the security council. kos about was an example where -- kos about was an example where the west stood up to the russians and said we will go another route. >> is this kosovo again? >> lockley, it did not get out of control. there is -- luckily, it did not get out of control. there is always this risk. i cannot forget some lessons from the past. when the cries and lebanon had

reached extremes, nixon exchange the phone call. richard, you send so many tanks and i will send an tanks. kissinger convinced nixon not to let it escalate. babel ready -- they were ready. there would have been an escalation. kissinger said that it could be generated into something extremely ugly and dangerous. do we have reasonable people behind our leaders today? >> we will have to go to our break now. our first task is over. we will talk about the escalation. we will get back to the chemical weapons issue.

>> welcome back to the bait -- to the debate. middle east peace talks on ice. the latest round canceled as three palestinians are killed during west bank clashes. the state department says the talks will continue. in china, the trial of disgraced politician wraps up with prosecutors demanding no leniency. japan's government might step up its involvement in combating the leak at the fukushima nuclear power plant. welcome back to the second part of the "france 24" debate. a lot of questions about syria. the coalition of the willing marching towards a military intervention? hours before inspectors finally headed towards the attack, only

to come under sniper fire. the general secretary said every hour counts, we cannot afford any more delays. the british prime minister, david cameron, cut short his holiday to meet with the national security council. officials in washington said the mission may be too little, too late. any evidence of chemical foul play may have been tampered with. they are warning of dire consequences. with me william jordan. to his right, specialist in russia at the american university in paris.

contemporary iranian politics lecturer at the interdisciplinary center. i want to begin with the main event of today. the inspectors finally got up and running, but they were very quickly back to their hotel because they came under sniper fire. the regime saying it was the fault of so-called terrorists. earlier today, our special envoy there interviewed the information in a certain and asked if these inspectors have any leeway. here is what he told us. l>> we are responsible for the safety of the team in the areas we control. in the districts -- these groups

are responsible for the safety of the commission. >> they have freedom to move around. no one is stopping them. as someone who knows the work of tim go weapons research, what do you think? >> i think the first part of the mission was rather successful, it either -- even though they were under fire at the beginning. they reached the hospital. they were able to take samples from people wounded. in a few hours and a few days, we will know scientifically if the neurotoxin was used. >> why is it for five days the regime refused access to these inspectors? they were sitting in that hotel room and could not leave. all of a sudden, they were

allowed to go. if they thought the inspectors were going to find something, they would not have let them get to >> that is the obvious conclusion. i would defer to oleg to talk about the pressure russia was putting on damascus. in the end, russia or somebody must've said to the syrians, you cannot stonewall the united

nations. they have the inspectors there and you have to let them. >> that is what happened? russian pressure? >> assad may have had the russians believe that it was not him. somebody might have been convinced, maybe self suggestion, wishful thinking on the part of the russians that it is the rebels who did it. there is a feeling of sincerity when you listen to smaller officials or the russian press. they seem convinced. let's face it, you do not have the angels among the rebels. you have al qaeda type of elements and they would be capable of committing atrocities in a suicidal fashion. >> to prove who did that is a

hell of a task. >> one writer wrote in the daily beast, the opposition, no boy scout troops. i'm sorry, i want to bring meyer back into this debate. i want to bring iran back into the debate. i want to read to you a quote by a top irani and military official. he is the armed forces deputy chief of staff in iran. the terrorist was planned by the united states and reactionary countries against the resistance front. the government and people of syria have achieved huge

successes. those who had fire to the oil will not escape the vengeance of the people. those are tough words. the toughest words we have heard in quite a while. >> it is, but i do not think we should interpret it in case the u.s. attacks syria, iran is going to join the war. he is sending a message of support to assad and to shore up iran possibly position by sounding tough. i do not think iran is willing to go to war on behalf of syria. iran has its own priorities. it is far more important than getting into a war with the u.s. because of assad. history has taught us that iran has not always been willing to

go to war on behalf of assad. israel has attacked syria more than three times. the iranians have their own goals, which are more important. syriasyria if there is war between and america -- if there is war between syria and america -- >> earlier this year, one of the ayatollahs top advisers said iran depends on syria. he went that far. could you address the saudi arabia factor? saudi arabia -- >> iran and saudi arabia have been involved in the middle east.

the two sides have been backing different parties and different conflicts in iraq. they have been supporting opposing parties and limit -- in yemen, bahrain. this has been a long-standing cold war that has been going on since the beginning of the revolution. in the irani and leadership, there is a difference. -- iranian leadership there is a difference. the use of chemical weapons has been used in syria. he did not name any parties.

>> the military general and not the president who made this statement. am i reading too much into that? does the president have less influence all of the sudden? >> you are reading the right way into it. when it comes to relations with neighboring countries, and the relations with syria, the revolutionary guard has the upper hand in comparison to the foreign ministry and the president. this has been going on for a long time. people find it frustrating to see the revolutionary guard will make it very difficult in terms of the response he wants to have with the saudi's and the turks. when it comes to relations with these countries, it is the revolutionary guard. the president does not have that much evidence months.

>> william jordan, the israeli dynamic in this, israel sees iran as being the most clear and present danger. i would like to play a quick soundbite from the israeli minister of international affairs. he was addressing the threat. >> the iranians are trying to develop much more dangerous weapons of mass distraction, nuclear weapons. what happened in syria should remind us how dangerous it is if iran will be able to complete

its military nuclear project and produce atomic bombs. >> if we get -- the israeli minister raising the nuclear issue. would this affect the u.s. ability to negotiate with iran? >> the u.s. ability to deal with iran -- >> there is a lot of hope in this new president. >> in terms of the internal divisions within the iranian regime, which have been long- standing. i remember 30 years ago, constantly seeing this hard-line . established government officials taking a slightly different view , depending on the nuance they were trying to push. i do not know how the u.s.

strike would affect the dynamics of the international negotiations. it is not just with the united states, plus germany. i do not think, as a first reaction, those negotiations would go out the window because of -- we are not talking about the u.s. unilateral strike in syria. we are talking about a western led international libya style military action, a surgical strike. >> i want to briefly bring up a tweet from one of our viewers. america and the west should be careful not to repeat it rock, -- iraq, chapter two.

maybe our viewers can see it. we have for a lot of these echoes. let's remember weapons of mass destruction 10 years ago. is that a false comparison? >> it is a very good comparison, especially the communication strategy of russia. there is a war of images and words going on at the moment. it is very much a fight for the media for winning over the media . of course, russia's best card, remember what happened in iraq. this is a weakness, this is a weak point in the u.s.

communication strategy and the legitimacy of whatever decision -- >> premature. i want to stick to the iraq, we have quite a few tweets comparing this countdown, but not a countdown. here is another one. deja vu, the west is trying to present a smoking gun. the truth will prove them wrong again. >> let's keep in mind --

>> it was totally false. >> let's keep in mind. we are pretty sure there are hundreds of chemical weapons in syria. it is not a secret. we know there are lots of weapons, and there is no debate about that. the fact that we have seen this horrific videos from last week is proof that there are weapons of mass destruction. >> the inspection team is only there to ascertain whether or not this is a gas attack, not who is responsible for it. >> the u.s., despite what a lot of people may think, the u.s. is moving deliberately and carefully on this.

bearing in mind what happened with iraq, the whole fiasco in the intelligence community related to that. or is a problem in the united states in terms of its communication strategy. those advocates are more hawk like, wanting to emphasize the seriousness of this in order to pressure the regime. i am convinced, because i have seen this, there is a lot of work going on in the intelligence community to figure out exactly what is going on and what will be key as i see it. the exact agent, the neurotoxin that was involved, some people have suggested, and i have wondered about this in previous incidences, whether you are talking about insecticides or are you talking about something

that only a regime can fabricate. that is the first thing, the agent that was used. the delivery system and whether there is any possibility that it could have been carried out by somebody other than the regime. this is part of the russian mind. this has been part of the narrative in the past and i would not rule anything out until there is more information. washington is proceeding very cautiously. it is moving its forces into the region to be ready for possible military action, it is also waiting to see what the u.n. inspectors come up with and put that in conjunction with its own information, which is considerable. it has considered it to be much more strategic than tactical. >> what if they come up with something -- what if the

evidence does point to assad launching these gases? do you see that possibility? where do you go from there? >> if you have a situation where washington, london, paris, the bulk of the scientific community believe that there has been chemical warfare used that only the regime could likely to have carried out, then you are going to have the immediate pressure for the west, for the united states, to take some kind of an action. what are you going to do as your follow-up action? in addition to decided what kind of target you will go after, i do not think you necessarily want to go after chemical weapons stockpiles.

if you are talking about going after communications facilities and those command and control structures, what is your follow- up? that is where you get into the escalation dynamic, which the administration is wisely worried about. >> [inaudible] it would be too dangerous for the civil population around it. >> we have everyone weighing of their military options. we will not get to the bottom it did today, but thank you to all of you for been here today.

we brushed the surface of some of these issues. william jordan, 30 -- year career. some of it in damascus. chemical weapons specialist. you are with the american university of paris. finally, you were very patient. contemporary irani and politics lecturer at the interdisciplinary center. thank you very much for joining us as well today. we are not leaving you yet. will end of the debate, what we are going to be looking toward what is going on in the media. we are looking at what is been said about the u.n. chemical inspectors and their mission under fire on the first day. we are here with james.

>> we will be brushing the surface as well. they have been beating the drums of war since last week about syria. even though there is not absolute confirmation, the proof is sufficient to conclude that -- the proof is sufficient. the responsibility to protect is the question. this is now a broader question of collective security, the credibility of the west. >> some correspondence earlier in syria. it allegedly shows the use of gas. >> they feel they have quite a stake in making a statement like that. if we move to foreign-policy,

they point to an anomaly when it comes to u.s. attitudes regarding chemical weapons. they're going back to the iran- iraq war in 1988. the cia gave information to the regime as to the location of irani and -- iranian troops. knowing very well chemical weapons would be used. if you move on, a map of the 23 places that the u.s. will bomb if there is a no-fly zone. that is not entirely clear. they say it is a safe bet in terms of the actual risk of being fired back at.

>> this is what we are talking about when we talk about those narrow surgical strikes. >> that is an interesting piece. let's move to the new york times. this is a lose lose situation for the u.s. try to prolong a stalemate if we are talking strictly about american interest. if the rebels win, it would more than likely lead to the formation of a government hostile to the united states. assad is not getting much of a hearing in the western press. but he has been speaking to this russian newspaper. he is repeating that same point. what are the interests for me in carrying out a chemical weapon strike? especially in an area where my own troops are located. this is preposterous. it is propaganda.

>> that is his point. >> we have time for one more. we will move to the financial times. this is david gardner saying, ok, we do not have exact proof. it should not shock us that the regime would conduct itself this way. it is the question of impunity on an international scale. if there are no limits in syria, there will be none elsewhere. >> we will leave it there. i would like to thank our guests once again.

captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org--

 ♪ >> we are. eat a head. china's new data for the economy shows it is all systems go. i am phillip yin in washington. >> and i am michelle makori at the nasdaq market, and there is another showdown with argentina. they are refusing to pay back more than 1.3 billion dollars to a group of investors. we will ha